[00:00:33] You know, money was something that was talked about in my household, although we were not a family that had a lot of money. I was very aware of the value of the dollar and how hard my mother worked for money. She was a single mom and early on. The idea of having to work hard earned money was something that was taught to me. And so as soon as I was 14 years old, old enough to get a worker’s permit, I got one and have been working a job every sense. [00:00:33][0.0]
Edgar: [00:00:34] We didn’t talk about money when I was growing up, but I knew that it was the source of all of my parents fighting. It was the source of a lot of anxiety in the family. And I think that had a lot to do with how I view money today. I don’t like to spend it even though I can (laughs). I have to have conversations with like multiple people if I’m going to buy something like over 100 dollars or I feel like I don’t deserve to buy myself certain things. And I have a lot of anxiety over, you know, buying things that are more than 20 dollars except for food. [00:01:13][39.0]
Andi: [00:01:14] One of the things that I do with my children as I do my best to not let them know what money is. And it’s really difficult to work with my wife on this because she remembers as a child. People giving her money and that make in her day. But for me, I don’t want my kids to think of money as this way of getting something like I don’t want them to see money as the gateway for anything that they want to do in life. I got this. I don’t remember where I got this idea from, but like, I want my children to think, like, if they want to be if they want to become a radio deejay, I just want them to be able to do it. And money is just a sub resource of that. And if they have the opportunity to do whatever it is they want to do in life and succeed at it. That money isn’t the source for that isn’t the goal. You know, and I don’t want them to think that they need that in order to become whatever it is they want to become. [00:02:11][57.8]
Arlo: [00:02:33] Happy New Year. Welcome to the first episode of Natives on a Budget. I’m Shawn Spruce. My family’s originally from the Laguna Pueblo in New Mexico. But I’ve lived most of my life in Albuquerque and I now live in Asheville, North Carolina with my wife and daughter. [00:02:47][14.2]
Shawn: [00:02:48] I’m Monica Braine. I’m from the Fort Peck, Assiniboine Sioux Tribes. And my grandfather was from Standing Rock. My day job is radio producer. Some of you may have heard me on the radio show Native America Calling. I’m senior producer there and I am single. I live alone except for my dog, which you will probably hear me talk about quite a bit. And here’s the thing, relatives, I’ve been thinking about money a lot, mostly about how little I have, how I could have had more. I’ve made a bunch of mistakes when it comes to money, like a ridiculous amount of mistakes that I’m willing to fess up to in this podcast for sure. But I want to ask you a question. Do you want 2020 to be the year that you make some changes when it comes to money? There’s something that drew you to this podcast. There’s something that drew you to listen to this and whatever that is, we’re gonna help you develop that to make some big changes in your life when it comes to money. [00:03:55][67.0]
Monica: [00:03:56] All of us have feelings about money. And I think the reality is that everybody feels that they need more of it. Whether you’re working a minimum wage job or whether you own some big company and you’re worth millions of dollars. Everybody, I think deep down feel some sort of insecurity worries that they’re not going to have enough worries that something could happen and they could struggle financially. So what we want to do is make sure that you understand that money is a resource and it’s a tool. And it needs to be managed wisely. And what we want to do is help you create a balance so that you handle money responsibly and in a healthy way. But it doesn’t become a burden. It doesn’t become an emotional drain on you. And it just is a tool of empowerment to make you and allow you to live the best life possible for not only you, but also your family and your community. [00:04:57][60.6]
Shawn: [00:04:58] We are starting and Native money cult here (both laugh). [00:05:06][7.6]
Monica: [00:05:06] That we are that we are you know, there’s a lot of podcasts out there and there’s a lot of people out there talking about money. But there aren’t a lot of people that are talking about personal finance from a Native perspective. And that’s where we come in. [00:05:20][13.9]
Shawn: [00:05:21] When I think about money and how much I’ve wasted and squandered through the years, and then I think about what my ancestors had to do for me to be sitting in this place in this moment. I feel like I owe it to them to live my best life possible, and that includes taking care of my finances, so I’m not calling somebody asking to borrow money, paying a bunch of money in interest. Sitting around thinking about how I’m never gonna go on vacation or when a funeral comes up, I can’t go home to go to it. And those are the things that we want to help you with. In the intro, you heard a few people talking about what was shared with them about money when they were growing up. What was shared with you, Shawn? [00:06:11][50.2]
Monica: [00:06:12] Here’s my first experience with money, Monica. I’m told that I was given a couple of dollars for my first birthday and, you know, babies and paper. So what happened? They all wound up on the floor, ripped up in shreds, properly drilled on until my dad comes along. He sees this confetti on the floor. He picks up and says to my mom, we’re gonna keep this because in a few years our sons gonna be a teenager and he’s going to come to us and he’s going to want money. And we’ll just him this confetti and say, sorry, we gave you money once. This is what you did with it. [00:06:43][30.5]
Shawn: [00:06:43] When I was growing up, my family. We didn’t spend a lot of time talking about money, but I remember after my parents split up. There is a lot more discussions about less money being available. And I kind of got the impression that money would solve all our problems. You know that if we didn’t feel good about something, we could just go buy something. Or if we just had a little bit more than whatever emotional issues were going on, they would just disappear. And that’s kind of a feeling that I’ve been reexamining recently. Money doesn’t solve everything. [00:07:19][35.3]
Monica: [00:07:19] I think that everybody has issues with money and on some level isn’t secure. Whether somebody is working a minimum wage job or somebody is really wealthy, owns a business or has some fabulously, you know, successful career. I think deep down, all of us worry whether or not we have enough money. We worry about setbacks that can impact our well-being and the well-being of those that we care about. We definitely want to address all these different concerns, but we want to do so from a Native perspective. [00:07:49][29.4]
Shawn: [00:07:50] Yeah, I agree with you, Shawn. I mean, the thing is, is like as I’ve become more and more obsessed with managing money, finances, things like that, I’ve been reaching out and trying to read as much as I can or listen to podcasts and things like that and everything that I’m hearing on our on finances. I don’t know. I can’t really relate to it. I haven’t found a single book or a single thing that’s just for Natives, where it talks about the complicated relationship we have with resources, with land, with money, how it is introduced to us and how we manage it today. So here we are. That’s why we’ve decided to do Natives on a Budget Podcast. And we’re going to give you a new episode the first of every month we want you to start off the month right with ideas and plans for how to manage your money. And we’re also going to tackle tough questions about managing money as well. You can join our Facebook group Natives on a Budget or check out our website. nativesonabudget.com. We’re going to take a short break. And when we get back, we’re gonna ask the question, is the American dream really possible for Native people? [00:09:05][74.9]
Monica: [00:09:11] (uplifiting music) Natives on a Budget is brought to you by the feeling you get when you get back from your debt free vacation, enjoy the feeling of calm, serenity, knowing you will be paying any interest on that trip to Gathering of Nations. How did you do that? By saving 200 dollars a month now till Gathering. 300 if you’re headed to Denver March. [00:09:31][19.7]
Narrator: [00:09:36] OK, Shawn. So, you know, it’s great to talk about budgeting and saving money, but that advice is for people who actually have money and we’re poor in Indian Country. Right? [00:09:46][9.7]
Monica: [00:09:48] That’s such an ugly word. But yeah, many native communities are. How do we say economically disadvantaged? I’ve got a friend who’s from Acoma Pueblo and he said something a few years ago that really hit home. He said, you know, “we Natives are experts at living in poverty no matter how broke we are. We always figure out a way to get by. The problems start when we get a few bucks in our pockets.” And the other thing to remember is that poor people, Native people, rural people, whoever we want to label is economically disadvantaged. We’re not the only ones with money problems. There’s a government study that came out revealed 39 percent of Americans, if faced with a 400 dollar emergency, would have to borrow money or sell something of value to cover it. [00:10:31][43.4]
Shawn: [00:10:32] Look, if that’s you, if you’re hearing that right now and you’re thinking. But wait a minute. That’s me. We’re not judging you. OK. I don’t want you to think that this is going to be a long lecture about the things you should and shouldn’t do when it comes to money. This is about utilizing your resources to live your best possible life. [00:10:57][25.1]
Monica: [00:10:58] So no matter how good a job you have, no matter how well you think you’re doing, you still need to make smart decisions when it comes to managing money. And yes, some reservations are poor, but others are doing OK. And there’s a whole class of hardworking Native people with good income. We’re going to focus on all of Indian country people from all backgrounds, all different communities. And we’re going to create something that I think everybody will be able to identify with. [00:11:27][28.5]
Shawn: [00:11:29] If you hear something and you’re like, that’s not me. Just hang on. Maybe something else you’ll connect with. OK, so Shawn, we get as this big question about the American dream, the way that I was raised. Is that capitalism is basically a corrupt system that holds the little man down. And that, combined with the historical effects of colonialism, really basically sets us up to fail from the beginning. Native people don’t have the chance to achieve the American dream. And when I say American dream, I mean anyone who works hard enough can have enough to live, can succeed, can thrive. All that it takes is just working hard enough. But I’ve heard so many people say, why bother paying off my debt? I’m just never going to get ahead anyway. [00:12:21][51.9]
Monica: [00:12:22] So now I know whose car that is in the parking lot with the Bernie Sanders bumper sticker. (laughs). [00:12:27][4.6]
Shawn: [00:12:28] I am not a communist. [00:12:28][0.6]
Monica: [00:12:30] No but you are a socialist. I just don’t buy it. When I hear people say the system is rigged, it’s impossible to get ahead. I know it’s tough, but most of my life I’ve worked really ordinary jobs. I was a seasonal firefighter. I worked in restaurants as a pizza driver. And through it all, I was still able to save money. I paid off student loans, kept out of debt. I invested, in fact, really everything I have today, my home, my savings, it all stems from a foundation of wealth that was created from service industry, gigs, tips, if you could on a side, hustles. If I can do it, anyone can. [00:13:08][37.8]
Shawn: [00:13:09] But you admit that our society is set up where some are privileged and some are not. [00:13:14][5.3]
Monica: [00:13:15] It definitely is. It certainly is. And you know, it gets tiring when you hear some of this, you know, pull yourself up from the bootstraps rhetoric. But I also think that I think, you know, if we listen too much to some of those messages, we just get discouraged and we just allow ourselves to kind of get overwhelmed with this feeling like it’s impossible. It’s impossible. You can’t do it. And now look at Indian Country. There were three million, roughly well over 3 million people in a country of over 300 million. And it’s not as I think to myself. Well, you know, we’re not talking about hundreds of millions of people or tens of millions of people. There’s three million of us. And I think to myself, can’t we just figure out a way to get three million people financially secure? I look at my own Pueblo, Laguna Pueblo or about 8300 tribal members. That’s not a huge amount of people. It’s not 10000 or you know, it’s not like the city of Albuquerque. It’s just 8300 people. I think surely there’s a way for 8300 people to become secure. [00:14:09][54.7]
Shawn: [00:14:10] I wanted to ask somebody else this question. So I reached out to Edgar Villanueva. He’s Lumby and the author of Colonizing Wealth Indigenous Wisdom to Heal Divides and Restore Balance. His book challenges philanthropists to d colonize. They’re giving, you know, enough of the poverty porn, describing poor little starving Indian kids and letters to donors and more social justice like asking communities what they need. I asked him if you wanted to see the personal finance industry be colonized. And also, what’s the point of trying to get your finances in order if we’re so far behind to begin with? [00:14:45][35.0]
Monica: [00:14:46] Whether it’s philanthropy or personal finance, banking, what has to happen across all of these spectrums is for folks in this work to understand history and context, how we got to where we are. There is a reason that indigenous and native communities. There’s a reason that we have very high rates of unemployment, that we have gaps and achievement in education and that we see high rates of poverty. And that’s because we are in indigenous communities. Obviously, we have suffered from genocide of stolen land and wealth that was taken away from us. The same is true in the black community because of slavery and the exploitation of black folks. You find high rates of poverty in the black community. And so when we’re looking at present day situations and earning potential and we have to account for the historical racism and genocide and slavery and all those things that have not created an equal, you know, a level playing field for us, we also have to look at implicit bias or racism that still exists in our policies and our systems that can continue to marginalize in our press, our communities. Right. There’s a mindset in the United States that if we just work hard and we just pull ourselves up by the bootstraps, that we all can be successful. We do have a history and a context in this country that has created major, major disparities and that we as native people have to work against in order to be successful. And so, you know, my advice to my Native brothers and sisters is not to let that get us down right. We also have to tap into our Indigenous innovation and our resiliency to know that we are able to overcome that and succeed. But it is a fact. And industries that are trying to support building wealth and communities have to take all of that into consideration as they’re developing programs and outreach into communities. [00:16:49][123.5]
Edgar: [00:16:51] That was Edgar Villanueva, author of Colonizing Wealth. You can learn more about his book and listen to the entire interview I did with him at Natives on a budget dot com. In this podcast, we’re going to have a regular segment called Tough Questions. We’ll answer your tough money questions. I’m talking about those things you’re afraid to talk about, like should you get out of debt or declare bankruptcy or if you’re a bad relative for not giving a family member money, even though you know that they’re going straight to the casino with it. Don’t be shy. [00:17:24][33.2]
Monica: [00:17:25] We probably heard all. So send us your questions to Natives on a budget at Gmail dot com. [00:17:29][4.3]
Shawn: [00:17:30] Today’s tough question comes from me. How do you know when it’s time to trade up your war pony? I know if a car needs fifteen hundred dollars with repairs and it’s only worth two grand, it’s time to move up. But here’s my situation. My knees on has about 80000 miles on it and I plan to drive it to 200,000. But then this guy rear ended me and the car seems fine. There’s not even a dent in the back. But his insurance. Body Shop said the car is totaled. The insurance company gave me about four grand and they were offering six. But they wanted to take the car and I was like, no way. I don’t want to buy a car in the next few days because where I live, you really have to have a car. So I took the money and honestly, I can’t tell you if I should keep driving it or get a new one. Some in my family want me to get a new car. They’re saying things like you need to be safe and why bother buying a used car when it’s just going to go bad anyway? You should get a new car. And then there’s other family members who are like, fine, something used that’s reliable. And honestly, Sean, the whole thing is so overwhelming that I opted to do nothing. And I’m just driving the car and hoping for the best. [00:18:47][76.4]
Monica: [00:18:49] That’s a dilemma, Monica. So I’m gonna assume that in exchange for accepting the lower settlement, 4000 cars instead of six thousand dollars, you now have a salvage title on the car. [00:18:58][9.1]
Shawn: [00:18:59] Yep. [00:18:59][0.0]
Monica: [00:19:00] Okay. So that means the state acknowledges the vehicle has suffered a total loss, but that’s really not a huge deal as long as you don’t plan on selling the vehicle. So here’s my advice. You say the car runs fine, take it to a good independent body shop, not a Nissan dealer, because that’s can be expensive and independent. Get it inspected. They can put it on a frame machine, make sure the anybody’s in bed, check the alignment. And if it gets a clean bill of health, I say keep driving it. Usually salvage title cars have visible damage. But your point, he didn’t suffer any ugly battle scars. So I’ve owned a few Nissans. Good cars. They’re really hard to kill. And here’s a final thought. Too many Native people spend too much money on their cars. [00:19:40][39.9]
Shawn: [00:19:41] What? How dare you say that? [00:19:43][1.7]
Monica: [00:19:43] Sorry, but it’s true. I mean, driving expensive vehicles they can’t afford. And whenever I do financial counseling with families that are struggling, I find there’s almost always a bad car loan involved, high interest longterm and they’re usually upside down. Which means the vehicle is worth less than the note. And it’s just really hard to get out from one of those deals. So a good running war pony. That’s painful. It’s worth its weight in gold. Excuse me? Worth its weight in hay.(laughs) I really believe that for many Native people, the first step towards financial security is to lock down a good, affordable vehicle. Vehicles play such a huge role in our lives that once that’s secure, a person can begin building a future. [00:20:26][42.8]
Shawn: [00:20:27] And we’re going to talk more about borrowing money for a car or just saving up the cash. Things like that in later episodes. So stay tuned. If you’ve got a tough question you want us to answer and we’re not going to sugar coat it. Send us an email to natives on a budget at Gmail dot com. All right. Someone to say this. All my podcasts relations. I believe in you. No matter how much money you make, you can manage it. Let’s make 2020 the year you cut your debt in half. Sharpen your spending habits and get organized. If you’re tired of going to grandma for money or the pawn shop or selling your plasma or missing a car payment. This podcast is for you. And if you don’t make enough, we’re not going to promise you the world here. We will have tips for you to pick up extra jobs or maybe make that difficult decision about moving. In the next eleven episodes. We’re going to talk to you about managing your money debts, whether or not you should get into debt. Hint the answer is almost never. And how? Planning for the future makes your future better and we’re not going to sugarcoat it. We know that things are tough in Indian country for some of you, but we’re here to share with you our thoughts on this and make things just a little bit better. You’re excited, Shawn? [00:21:56][89.2]
Monica: [00:21:57] Hell, yeah. Let’s do this Indian country. We’ve got your back. OK, Monica and I, which really believe there is enough frybread right out there for every one of us to get his or her fair share. Look it’s tough. But remember, Mesa Verde wasn’t built in a day. You can get enough of a handle on your money. So you’re not stressing out on the rents. Do not scavenging under the couch cushions for gas money. Now living on spam and peanut butter and still have a few bucks left over to enjoy a night out once in a while. Straight shooting, no nonsense Natives only approach will strive to find that perfect balance for you between tough love, logic and understanding. OK? [00:22:34][36.5]
Shawn: [00:22:35] All right. At the end of the episode, we’re going to give you a little assignment. This is not school. It’s not homework. [00:22:41][6.6]
Monica: [00:22:42] Thank you. [00:22:43][0.4]
Shawn: [00:22:44] The best way to make change is to write it down, to be intentional, to keep thinking about it. So get out a piece of paper and write down what drew you to listen to this podcast. What is it that you want to change about your finances this year? What challenges do you expect to face? You can share your thoughts with us. Send us an e-mail to natives on a budget at gmail dot com or you can post them right into our Facebook group and we’ll see you in February. [00:23:12][27.7]
Monica: [00:23:36] (music) Natives on a Budget, is hosted by Monica Braine and Shawn Spruce, it’s produced by Monica Braine. Thanks to Andy Murphy, Marino Spencer and Art Hughes for their help. Music in this episode, River Flows is by Torrin Jacobs. And the underwriting music to Reach the Top is by Shane Ivers at Silverman Sound dot com. You can also sign up for Natives on a budget newsletter at Natives on the Budget dot com [00:23:36][0.0]